10 things your IT guy wants you to know

That is so true! I work as a student worker tech for my college, and I agree 100% with this!
Good post!

The beautiful thing about technology is that it continually advances and eventually there will be less of a need for the self-rightous IT department. Yes do seem smug and rude and that is because the ball is currently in your court, you got the knowledge and I need it. In and of itself the IT department is a liability, not an asset. The market will eventually correct itself. Enjoy pissing off the hand that feeds you while you can.

Second commenter: One big problem:

There will always be idiots. From the way you responded, I can only assume you are one of those who require constant help and have the IT staff seething each time your name comes up.

When will IT advance to the point where it NEVER breaks?

Also, I did not sense smugness or self-righteousness in any of this. Granted - I am an IT guy.

@5:31

It never ceases to amaze me how self-richeous the user gets when faced with providing some simple common courtsey. What part of being a decent human to another human don't you understand? Ask nice, be honest about what happened, and say thank you when the issue is resolved. How hard is that? Evidentally you didn't learn those simple things as a child when you wanted something. But I guess back on the ol' plantation you didn't have to learn that facet of life.

For server tech-support you can change number 10 to something like...

"If I email you about something technical which you don't understand this doesn't mean that you can ignore it, pretend I never answered the question, then get arsey about it 5 days later & expect a full explanation over the phone. If you don't understand anything, ask"

#9 is amusing. He's trying to rationalize being rude, by saying he's busy. You know what, pal? We're all busy. We're all having a bad day. We all have to deal with people who don't know as much as we do about things. Be courteous and respectful to me and I will be courteous and respectful to you. Be rude to me, and you'll get the same right back. But remember, where as you get to hide your dank little odd-smelling office all day, I have to deal with the public (and smile while I do it). My 'rude' is going to hurt a whole lot worse for you than yours is for me.

I am an IT person. I get tired of IT people creating lists like this. Face it everyone deals with problems, you can insert any profession into the title "10 things your _______ wants you to know". The main problem here is a lack of respect. Everyone just calm down and try to get along. Show proper respect to everyone.

See, my problem with lists like this is that people take them too bloody seriously. It's a freaking post. it's humorous. Sure every IT guy has felt like this at some point or another. But this is only meant to make light of it. If it really drove us nuts that much, don't you think we would find another job? Com on.

A true BOFH wouldn't agree with #10. =P

I love how users whine and whine, and their excuses are the best.

#2: As far as "in and of itself the IT department is a liability, not an asset" is concerned: personally, I consider computer-illiterate people that need to work with computers all day long and (often) break things while doing so the actual liability, but hey, that might just be me, right?

And although you claim that "technology continually advances and eventually there will be less of a need for the self-righteous IT department", you don't seem to realize that increasingly complex technology often results in decreased instead of increased stability, unfortunately; so there will always be a need for people who can fix problems resulting from the (mis)use of complex technology.

Let's just hope that this "continually advancing technology" will not be doing your job in a couple of years; that would be quite ironic...

Regarding #9: The reason IT support people are rude is that they are frustrated. No IT person really WANTS to be a support person. They’d rather be programmers or hardware builders or professional gamers. They don’t have the “skillz” for those jobs, so they settle for being a professional fixit guy/gal.
Rude IT people are rude because they think they are better than you. They think the world revolves around computers, and that they (as the custodians of their silicon gods) are the closest thing to a god that you will have the pleasure of meeting today. Note that I said “Rude IT people.” Nice, friendly IT people don’t need to make excuses for being rude.

Hello,

I agree with last comment. Most IT Tech support people are on lower end of the IT business. Maybe only HTML web desingers are lower;-) Instead of learning more about their job like software development or network administration, they fix idiotic windows user problems and let their frustration out on their clients. So please don't be arrogant and annoyed. You don't want to be treated like that by your car machanic either....

I really love your post! It's so true!

IT people often seem rude not because they are trying to be rude or because the are pissed off at the ineptitude of the users but because they are blunt.

You could call it "ruthlessly efficient communication".

IT guys are like this because computers don't get offended. IT guys "talk" to computers and get used to doing it in the most efficient way possible. Then they start talking to each other this way... and none of them get offended. Then they talk to normal users and some of the users get offended because normal users aren't used to this way of communicating.

I believe that engineers and scientists are much like this as well, probably for similar reasons. The laws of physics don't cushion the blow when you get your calculations wrong. If I am wrong, I'd like to be told so as soon as possible with an explanation of where I went wrong and what I should be doing instead.

That said, there are still IT people who are rude. There is a big difference between blunt and rude. IT people see this difference in stark contrast because they are blunt but they are not rude. If an IT person is rude, he won't have any friends amongst the IT crowd.

I would also add to number 5 that if your problems are always urgent (to you) then your personal time management is lacking. It is not my problem that you can't submit requests that take 3 days at least 3 days before you need them completed. This also ties in to number 4; Some jobs will take the computer a long time to complete and no amount of cajoling will make it happen any faster.

This post might be humourous but it's funny because it's true. For every single point in the article I can think of someone at each of my previous jobs who has embodied the spirit of that point. Often, the same person embodied several of them.

This post has been removed by the author.

Funny post - worth a chuckle! :)

I work for a big company in an app dev team, which has actually been physically separated from the "business" guys, completely separate building miles away - the "business" people have a managed network/pc's, with tech support and weekly security scares, the dev guys have a completely different network with full reign over it - absolutely no security scares and no extra sys admins needed. Kinda puts #2's comment's into perspective... train the illiterates, sack those who can't be trained! ;)

IT people are suck ass blow hards.They think that computers are the only way, but sorry, paper,phones and files are much better from so many points of view that it bogges the mind that any company would even want to wast resources on IT.I know,I was a IT blow hard.Every company I have helped to translate over to the IT departments have in the end ----Cost more to operate than old system,wast more time for employees,and provided more room for f_ck ups in all respects.Yes I know that IT people suck because they have to justifie what they can't.And that is there job and department!

IT people are just monkeys making poop and selling it as sunshine.Yes they come and fix my prolems(a week after I submit my e-mailed problem and wasted 1 1/2 hours answering there e-mail submit form!).And yes they answer all my questions(after I have to explain what my job is to them the 50th time).I quess its all right to be rude if your a socail moran but don't make up justifications for it,because you go form moran to jerk if you do!But what really pisses me off is when they can't fix something that they did fix 3 weeks before and then declare that it can't be fixed ever and I have to deal with it for now on!I see them fix one day and then they forget how to?Smug,smart ass and stupid is noway to go through life!I would try to feel sorry for them but I really don't care to,---right back at you mother f_cking A-holes!

1 thing your IT costomer wants you to know.We don,t like you and your kind.

Look, the whole reason IT exists in the first place is because it is a *service* industry, and a support function. I've been in IT for about 10 years now and I've been a Network Engineer, a Field Tech, a Consultant, and I'm currently an IT Manager. Part of the reason I've done well for myself is because I realize the customer service aspect of the job. Sure, there are a lot of people out there who don't know anything about computers and tend to "shoot the messenger" when they're having their share of frustrations in a day. But if you're rude to them because you're fed up with their incessant trouble calls, maybe you're in the wrong line of work, and you need to get a job which relies less on interacting with other human beings. However, you'd probably be shooting yourself in the foot, from both a personal and a professional perspective.
Look at it this way: how would you feel if you bring your car to a mechanic and he scoffs at you because you couldn't recognize that the reason your car isn't working right is because it needed transmission fluid or something - and he makes you feel really stupid for it? Or you went to a doctor and he got really annoyed because you're the fourteenth person he's seen today complaining of a simple cough?
The IT Department is a *huge* asset to any organization - it's not just a cost center. Even firemen and cops have a quiet day - but an IT guy can be a hero *every* day. You should recognize that you have *tremendous* goodwill you can spend - IF you're smart enough to learn how to use it and shrug off some of the BS which you'll find in just about *any* job. IT guys get to deal with just about everybody in the company - the lowly support tech or help desk agent gets to talk to everyone from secretaries, to sales reps, to CEOs. And each one of them has some way they can probably help you out. Sure, it's human nature that some people don't appreciate you until their PC is billowing smoke - but every once in a while, you'll get a smart customer who really appreciates what you've done for them - and might just return the favor somehow.
In IT, you have a chance to really help some people out on the job - and not everyone can say that. But if you want to make it in the field, you've *got* to check your attitude and look at the bigger picture here. Quit looking at users as burdens, and start sloughing off some of the annoyances and realizing the opportunities you probably have. Either that, or think about a career change - for the benefit of your users AND for the sake of your own happiness.

this post is the reason IT people are generally passed over for promotions and consistently report to "business" people who are put in charge of the IT area of the business. the chip on their shoulder and their belief that they are the end all/be all of the business is what limits their salary, promotion potential, and growth as a human being walking the planet. everyone's busy, get the hell over it.

by the way, 90% of the time i'm calling to get something fixed it's because IT set something up the easiest way possible (folder permissions, software updates, etc.) that resulted in issues that could have easily been fixed had they done it right the first time.

and yes, IT support people generally make slightly above average for their skill set but are immensely limited in their salary progression due to their low tolerance for being questioned and limited social skills.

It's been said already. The type of tech support folks who do the work the original poster does are usually (not always) at the bottom of the IT and business food chain. I have worked in IT for many years and find the assholish attitude displayed here all too common. Just because you have a vague idea of how a PC works does not make you indispensable or superior to those who actually do the work of your organization. I submit that your ignorance of what they do is far greater than their ignorance of file permissions in NTFS. If I was your manager I would fire you as quickly as I could and suggest you consider a different career.

yeah, this poster is a smug douchewaffle

IT staff do get uppity, do they not? My peers would see to having them beaten, but I find that patient explanation oft times corrects such impudent attitudes.

Allow me to address each of these bullet points individually.

1> We didn't ask you a question to learn something new, we ask you questions in order to amuse ourselves by contradicting the things that you say. "Learning" is over-rated and it's obvious you have no knowledge to impart.

2> If we begin a conversation with "I'm such an idiot", keep in mind we are admitting mistakes on our part, but at no point are we inferring we are actually more of an idiot than you are. Please translate as "I left my pedestal for a moment today, imagine for a moment you are as exalted as I and share my embarrassment .. and then go back to remembering your place"

3> Cheeky bastard, I do not MAKE mistakes. The universe changes around me thus that my perfectly righteous actions have negative consequences from time to time. Now pick up the poop.

4> You misapprehend. If it takes you any measurable amount of time to accomplish a task, say .. recover 100MB a file from a laptop I have lost and have never backed up, it means you obviously don't know your job. Just because you don't know the proper solution does not mean you can make up ridiculous excuses such as "it can't be done" or "it can't be done in less than 5 seconds".

5> When I mark a message as "urgent" I am merely indicating that this task is more important than the sum total of other things that have transpired in your lifetime thus far. This is true of every message I send you, which is why they are all marked thus.

6> See #4. Your tasks would not stack up if you weren't so ineffective to begin with. Have you ever observed a McDonald's crew? When they are slow and ineffective, they accrue an angry queue at the drive up. Learn from the mistakes of your betters.

7> No, you see #5, and #4. I am emailing you again because the task has not been completed. It should have been prior to my pressing send the first time. So imagine the thought crossing my mind again, ever, and I check but the work still has not been done. Insolence!

8> Since you are being paid to have problems fixed before I notify you, and to know the answer to my question before I ask it, I don't see what burden a telephone conversation is for you? Just recite the answers and acknowledgments you should already have prepared. This actually should be preferable for multitasking, since you only have one keyboard and you don't use the phone to talk to your computer-thing.

9> If you do not extend excruciating amounts of selfless courtesy to your betters (such as I), drape your laptop over a mud puddle as I walk by etc, then you should be canned. But presume to tell me I've done something wrong, or that there may be better ways of doing things than I have already chosen?! You should be made an example of, and your tortured screams can serve to cow the rest of your department into it's place before you perish.

10> Each spec of data that has come into contact with my person is pricelessly invaluable and worth millions to third parties the world over. It is a given that you are eavesdropping and must be reprimanded regularly. This is a duty I suffer towards all of my servants, dash my generous soul. Nonetheless your amusing statement "I don't peek; you are not interesting" is quite as silly as "I do not breath; oxygen is overhyped".

So what is it when the only non automated response to a four month old e-Mail problem is 'try turning it off and on again' or 'don't change the settings on (something that hasn't been touched in four years)'. I was starting to assume that you get a job like this and spend the rest of your career polishing the seat of your pants with a chair or picking your teeth with a matchstick. Don't hold your breath, you'll only go blue waiting.

@ February 23, 2008 2:28 PM

Wow, for someone who calls other people "morans" so much, you think you would at least know how to use a word processor to check your spelling.

the real question is: if you're so smart why the hell is your job to nerd away all day in a dead end IT job, essentially serving other people? Instead of having a nice HR or Bus. ops. job where you might actually make more than 50K a year?

I found all of this true, i have known many people in IT or techsupport and they come home with stories of peoples stupidity. not only in tech jobs but jobs such as retail to. people cannot realize for some resone that they cannot always be your first priority

This is boring. Seriously. As a tech guy myself, I am sick of sniffling holier than thou tech guys that think their jobs and clients are especially taxing. Everybody from doctors to waitress have to deal with the dumbass public. Most of these people deal with it professionally. Auto mechanics and tech guys tend to bitch about it. It gives their respective industries a bad name.

I agree with the criticism of this IT professional who I also perceive as being rude and possessing a bad attitude and if this guy worked for me, as CEO of a company with an IT staff I'd replace him as being part of the problem. When he is confronted by a security guard he expects courtesy even though the guard has had to deal with dozens of idiots that day. When he deals with retail staff, they also got crap all day. Ditto for most of his coworkers. We all manage to be courteous to each other except for this cave dweller.
I have just as much trouble dealing with some of these IT people who lack the interpersonal skills to deal with other humans as they have in dealing with us mere mortals who always manage to screw up their computers.
One more thing. He is tired of always hearing that getting a problem resolved is an emergency. well, I have news for you. These are emergencies in their own way. Everyone is over worked and under pressure with deadlines to be met. Try staying late to get your work caught up like the rest of us do on a regular basis. You exist to serve the staff. They don't exist to serve you. Get used to it. Maybe if you weren't so damn obnoxious companies wouldn't be trying to outsource your jobs as often as they do.

really nice post one of the things i hate is when someone says they have an issue and you ask them what did you do they insist "nothing!" persistantly... im not accusing you just tell me for gods sakes what you did right before the error happened... yes being vague and insufficient with you're information really helps me espeically "my computer is broken" and when i ask why whats wrong you just say "its broken theres uh... its just broken ok?"

What a sad bunch of people you are! I work in a job where people call for help. Sometimes they think they know more than me, sometimes they don't tell the whole truth, sometimes they get angry, sometimes they want me to do things urgently that aren't urgent , sometimes they aren't real bright. When the recession comes and some of you guys and gals are out of work maybe you'll realise that part of your job was to DEAL WITH PEOPLE and not massage your own egos.

BTW I got better service in Starbucks this morning than I usually get from our IT department!

I hope this is nothing more than a joke if not you probably won't be working for long. ;)

I work with an IT department on a regular basis. Most are very professional and understand that there job is no different in priority then mine. If the system is down we produce zero product which means WE don't get paid.

Until WE (this includes the writer) realize this WE won't survive. Of course we could all learn to speak Chinese...

Waaa waaa my pussy hurts.

I think we should be tolerant and understanding of IT guys: I'd get pretty snarky if I was 30 years old and I spent all my days fixing tech problems and all my nights wondering what sex is like.

"paper,phones and files are much better from so many points of view that it bogges the mind that any company would even want to wast resources on IT."

Hehe...hehe...

Yup. And I can't imagine why ANY military force would bother wasting it's time with oil...I mean, steam power is SO MUCH BETTERZORZ!

I work at my college as IT and the only one i agree with is number 4.

I have been yelled at by one of the faculty members because they didnt save their data. We even provide a file server that will backs up its files every night. I definitely didn't sign up to be publicly humiliated because some tenured douchebag doesn't know how to save their files.

I am pretty sure most of this post is greatly embellished for humor, but whatever.
Sigh, good thing i mainly do web development there.

As others have mentioned this could pretty much apply to any industry, not just IT. Auto mechanics, maintenance staff, electricians, and even carpenters all suffer from these same issues. Not everyone fully understands the equipment as well as those that are supposed to. If you call a plumber when your toilet doesn’t work, consider yourself lucky if they come out on a Sunday night.
This is the same deal IT goes though yes were busy as well but the good techs will get to your issue in a timely fashion. Expecting us to jump every time you computer beeps is just beyond reason. I don’t call my electrician every time a light doesn’t turn on I figured out it’s a bad bulb a long time ago. That’s an IT’s persons biggest complaint is that people don’t take responsibility for their knowledge.
Now I am generalizing because every IT person has some users they just simply can’t stand to deal with, because they will call with the same questions each time. I can recall one job where we posted the password for a user up on the wall because every week she would call asking how to log onto the computer, and no she didn’t have any mental issues, she just didn’t feel it was her job to remember it.
Really an IT person just wants the simple respect you expect from them, typically we don’t get it. We get talked down to since the computer is our problem because its in our department. Yea ill blame my electrician anytime an electrical device doesn’t work I am sure they will stop answering the phone.
I personally am an IT person, and I don’t mind fixing peoples issues, that’s why I am there. What I really dislike is people treating me like I am their personal secretary. Working in education as many other IT people in education will say that some NOT ALL teachers will say “this isn’t in my contract” in relation to technology. Well it’s not my job to walk you through every little thing. Most of the processes from submitting grades, homework, lesson plans have been the same for 3-5 years. It’s even documented how to do it in their handbooks but they insist on calling us every week they have to submit lesson plans. I don’t mind fixing issues when it’s the occasional ok I forgot or something changed, what do I have to do, but calling me every time your required to use technology is your own laziness.

HA....IT changes to quickly for people who don't work with it daily to really keep up with it. Now, there are plenty of people who do know a lot about computers, but there is so much stuff done in the background that makes everything work that it would be impossible for almost any corporation to have their other departments absorb the IT department. And if an IT department does their job right, then they are an asset. But as long as companies like MS keep changing their products every 3 years, then IT folks will be here for a long time. And its not about pissing off the hand that feeds you, it's about cutting the crap and getting as much work done as possible. Thank you very much.

In an ideal world the people at IT support would be as socially adept as they are adept at fixing things. Those people get frustrated when they have to do the same simple things again and again.

What an IT support person wants is freedom to do their job without stupid remarks like how they should fix a file you deleted. They know you're ignorant about what is going on, that's why you called a support person.

Only thing I find annoying is to fix the same problem over and over again with the same person. They don't learn from their mistakes, and that creates frustration. No matter how much you try to teach them to avoid the problem.

Everybody trying to get the thick headed person to do it right will get frustrated if they just don't get it. Most are smart and learn from their mistakes. It's the ones that don't learn that are the problem.

Of course, if you don't teach them anything, like how to correct the problem, and only do it yourself. Atleast you should identify the problem to the one experiencing it, and tell how not to end up in such a situation in the future.

Less work for you and less chagrin all over.

Upon reading the comments I take back one thing: don't try to teach them anything, just treat them as equals (I know it's hard). Tell them in the most polite terms that what they've done is irreversible (if that has happened), and take their abuse.

It's not like IT people are human beings.

That's the standard way, anyway. Forget about politeness and treating people well, as they don't treat you well. If they don't have the courtesy, why should you try to be courteous to them?

Just do to them what they do to you. See how long you hold your job, against the people who abuse you all the time. I'd report abuse by customers, but the customer is always right.

#9: "I don't have enough time to sugar coat things for you"
You clearly wasted valuable time writing this list then.

#s 11 & 12 - Please don't call me a fat idiot, even though if you come to my call center, I will probably turn out to be a fat idiot with final fantasy posters (or something even more 1337) hanging in my sad, shared cubicle.

And don't call me a pathetic, terminally single loser. One day, I will ask that cute girl from accounting out in a manner that mortifies us both, then end up settling for the goth "lesbian" who always stares at me when I arrive in the morning.

Gee, and I thought I was just an a-hole. I guess I'm just like every other IT person out there. Okay, maybe I'm still a bit of a jerk, but I'm a sys admin and I've had years to learn most of the stuff on this list is true, especially the fact that users lie...to no end.

What a total cock! I'm glad I know from experience that not all IT guys are as c*nty as this, otherwise I'd be scared to even contact one!

The second point - we say things like that because we're embarrassed and just want to lighten things up a little.

Way to perpetuate the stereotype that IT guys have no social skills and are bitter at the world cos they probably can't get laid!

I am too an IT person. I do think it's funny but in all reality we're not all like this.

While most points are valid, I don't agree with the bluntness of communication between individuals. It's ok to be cordial and polite. Think of it from this perspective: I'm an IT guy where it's my job to know everything IT-related to be as efficient as possible about the job. Hypothetically, I might ever need help with something like how to build a bookcase from a bunch of wood. Are you saying that you wouldn't mind if the person you went to for woodworking help treated you the exact same way? I honestly can't believe your answer would be "yes". If it is, you're definitely a rare breed. Most would want polite, yet efficient banter to be able to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Most wouldn't want to hear, "I prefer email over phone calls” when you’re stuck holding a hammer poised over your woodwork. While this may very well be more efficient for you, we can’t all be like that. It’s the natural order of things to want to communicate more personably, i.e. phone call or office visit. It’s in our nature. Ever typed out an email that, only after you’ve hit “Send”, you realized that a few sentences could have been completely misconstrued and now you’re worried you now look like a total ass? When you yourself make a mistake, don’t you want someone to say something like, “Hey, that’s cool, I’ve probably done something much worse when I first started with computers.”? Of course you do. It’s human nature. Something else to consider – their arguing might not be arguing, but rather an attempt to try and understand the issue so as not to repeat the same mistake. Many times, it’s simply just a matter of comprehension and not questioning your statement. Are you telling me you never questioned your parents growing up? Not likely. I like most of the points and I was once an IT consultant for a local company. However, too many times I’ve seen folks in Corporate IT world get on their high horse and act holier than thou simply because of the position and capability within their job roles. It’s ok to be tactful/polite and no, it won’t kill you. So it took an extra 4 minutes out of your day. Maybe that one guy/girl you went the extra mile with will decide to do something nice for you or help you with something you’re unsure about in the future. Ya never know…

While most points are valid, I don't agree with the bluntness of communication between individuals. It's ok to be cordial and polite. Think of it from this perspective: I'm an IT guy where it's my job to know everything IT-related to be as efficient as possible about the job. Hypothetically, I might ever need help with something like how to build a bookcase from a bunch of wood. Are you saying that you wouldn't mind if the person you went to for woodworking help treated you the exact same way? I honestly can't believe your answer would be "yes". If it is, you're definitely a rare breed. Most would want polite, yet efficient banter to be able to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Most wouldn't want to hear, "I prefer email over phone calls” when you’re stuck holding a hammer poised over your woodwork. While this may very well be more efficient for you, we can’t all be like that. It’s the natural order of things to want to communicate more personably, i.e. phone call or office visit. It’s in our nature. Ever typed out an email that, only after you’ve hit “Send”, you realized that a few sentences could have been completely misconstrued and now you’re worried you now look like a total ass? When you yourself make a mistake, don’t you want someone to say something like, “Hey, that’s cool, I’ve probably done something much worse when I first started with computers.”? Of course you do. It’s human nature. Something else to consider – their arguing might not be arguing, but rather an attempt to try and understand the issue so as not to repeat the same mistake. Many times, it’s simply just a matter of comprehension and not questioning your statement. Are you telling me you never questioned your parents growing up? Not likely. I like most of the points and I was once an IT consultant for a local company. However, too many times I’ve seen folks in Corporate IT world get on their high horse and act holier than thou simply because of the position and capability within their job roles. It’s ok to be tactful/polite and no, it won’t kill you. So it took an extra 4 minutes out of your day. Maybe that one guy/girl you went the extra mile with will decide to do something nice for you or help you with something you’re unsure about in the future. Ya never know…

A good IT person knows they are dealing with people, and would have some people skills. An inflated ego is no excuse to treat people like they are stupid.

Just like a typical IT person, these ten things verify that your IT person thinks that they know everything.

If I had the same access to the tools and programs that the IT people use, I could fix my own problems in half the time it takes them to do it.

It depends on the oranization - exoerience has taught me that if you work for a class organization that has a culture of treating people with respect, then your IT support is probably very helpful and respectful. If your in an organization that breeds a negitive atmosphere of self-centerness and loathing, then I wouldn't expect the IT department to be any different from the rest of the organization - You reap what you sow....

Meh, IT is just like every other department justifying their need to exist. Either way when something breaks, it sometimes is much harder to fix the seemingly "same" problem to the user but something totally different happened that caused the same result.

However IT is changing, the days of Nick Burns your company computer guy are numbered. Now employers look for people with the ability to actually talk to a non-tech person. Employers shouldn't hire non college tech people just because they read a manual online and know a language, they probably don't know the logic or business rules behind that or how to communicate their skills to their boss.